Question: Is there a way to avoid decking out with Empty Jar? I find in some instances my deck to be lower than the opponent's after all the plays.
Oops, think I just answered my own question. Manage and recycle Card Destruction.
You Card Destruction and chain Serial Spell, so you never draw with the kill-shot Card Destruction. You force the effect through twice, but you discard and draw 0, you know?
is there an exodia deck list
I'd imagine a build with Merchant, MoF, MoD (Mask), Tsuk, LLAB, Swords, MoP, Waboku, TT, MF, and Backup Soldier would be a good route to take Exodia. Unfortunately, Exodia is not viable in this format, no matter what route you take. It's unlikely that it could even be considered anything better than tier 4.
Exodia is far slower than any other combo deck and particularly vulnerable to repeated use of Delinquent Duo. It will never be viable in the format. I suspect anything you can build to stall out the game will be worse than a similar build of Final Countdown or Burn.
Any ideas on how to build a consistent Zombie deck that focuses on utilizing Vampire Lord, Pyramid Turtle, Book of Life and Spirit Reaper to gain advantage? I haven't figured out the optimal monster and spell lineup yet.
I recently posted my own personal "zombie" build. It's a much better deck than anything anybody used in '05. It uses 2 BoL and 3 Spirit Reaper, but no Turtle and no VLord. Turtle simply doesn't have enough good targets to justify using it over Mystic Tomato, which can also get Sangan. Vampire Lord and Ryu Kokki are simply too vulnerable to TER and Snatch Steal to ever work in this format, and they are horrible cards to draw for turn. Airknight however is great, because it converts Spirit Reapers into a draw engine once the opponent has run out of in hand cards to discard. It also let's you run BLS effectively.
Jazz honestly I think having V lord is pretty good because when my opponent plays your build all I do is just play around the cards by either setting my entire hand or playing very minimalistic so they dont hit the card I care about and Vlord is pretty good g1 just because its hard for them to get over (g2 they just side in mobius so not much there) also they other zombie boss monster ryu koki I think is pretty good as a 1 of in side and maybe in main too
How does the last turn deck work without Jowgen?
It uses Non-aggression Area to prevent the opponent from summoning that turn. This is more reliable than Jowgen because it prevents stuff like Night Assailant, Sinister Serpent, Book of Moon and Ring of Destruction from beating the Last Turn player.
What is the extra deck of a standard goat list? Is there really no size to the extra deck in this format?
Good question, I'll try to include an extra deck next time I do an update. There was no limit in 2005 but it's easy to pick 15 to use on DN. Something like: 3 TER, 1 Dragoness the Wicked Knight, 1-2 Darkfire Dragon, 2 Dark Balter, 1-2 Ryu Senshi, 1-2 Dark Blade the Dragon Knight, 1 Reaper on the Nightmare, 1 Fiend Skull Dragon, 2 Gatling Dragon, 1 Last Warrior from Another Planet.
I play 3 of all fusions if I could tbh
What happened to X-head machines and Monarch control? Especially the former I built and tested quite a lot and found great success with it. It's just so unpredictable and can convert card- into dmg advantage at any point of the game. At my locals the Reasoning Monster gate D-Fusion deck (here H.A.M.) is very popular and Machines have a rather solid matchup against it.
I considered them, but basically I deemed both of those decks to be inferior versions of ones I've posted above: "Bazoo Return" and "Monarchs". This deck gallery is already pretty large. I only wanted to post the best versions of each deck I've come across. I had to make some decisions on what not to include.
I see and agree with your point. However, the deck is still fun to play and I wonder what your decision was to not include Torrential Tribute. In such an agressive deck you surely do not want to play too many traps, but is there an actualy advantage of not playing it?
I guess the advantage would be that it keeps your opponent's s/t removal dead, and it keeps your Brain Controls live. I think Traps might work out, but if you include Torrential you might as well include Ring, Call and Mirror. This is not a personal build of mine so I haven't tested it at all.
I run a similar build to the last deck in your library. However, I run single copies of Enemy Controller and some other 'tech' spell cards that try to help in ultimately assuring a kill.
I also run less copies of Dimension Fusion and Metamorphosis; in my opinion with 3 Reasoning and 3 Monster Gate basically ensures you will get at least one copy of most of your spell lineup in the graveyard, allowing DMoC to grab whatever you need in any situation; running a more varied spell lineup gives you more kill options without having to run multiples.
What are your thoughts on this take?
That's a really interesting take. I can see it being important to run several spells for the DMoC versatility thing, but I also think first and foremost you want to be able to get DMoC out and summon a Chaos to set up Dimension Fusion. One idea I had was that more copies of Chaos and DF, the quicker you can summon DMoC when it's in your GY. I honestly haven't tested the deck enough though. So, long story short yeah I would probably cut a copy of Meta and Reload for a Brain Control and an Econ.
A simple question: Why Chain Disappearance doesn't see play? It's great against goat!
Because it's not very versatile. Sure if you get the first TER that comes out it's great, but in almost every other situation Book of Moon, Ring or Sakuretsu would work far better. Situational traps generally don't work in the format because they lack versatility and are a liability in the wrong situation (such as when your opponent has Storm or Breaker).
Hey, is their a place for goat Tournaments?
Not yet, but a little birdie told me something is in the works that will launch this summer.
is there a good standard goat list that mains dekoichi? if not, please explain why. Thanks!
You can essentially take the Standard Perovic build at the top of this page and subtract Morphing Jar and Tribe for 2 Dekoichi. Alternatively take out some combination of MJ/Tribe/Exarions/Airknights/Dusts/Sakuretsu. Those are definitely the "last" cards in the deck and the ones that get sided out. In fact Perovic and many others side 2 Dekoichi for going first and for certain matchups like Chaos Sorcerer decks (because Sorc cannot banish a f/d Dekoichi.
Have you tested the Grindy Gate deck? I get the Monster Gate/Reasoning concept, as well as the DMoC, but I was curious if you'd tried other cards such as Return from the Different Dimension, Jinzo, maybe Mefist the Infernal General, etc.
Yeah I considered all those cards. Jinzo was a staple in the old HAM decks, but it really doesn't advance my game state and goes against the ethos of this deck: which is to use reasoning/gate/DFusion to generate advantage first, and to OTK second. With the monster lineup I have now, I feel good about activating reasoning/gate against almost any monster on the field. I strongly considered Mefist, but not being able to kill an Exarion in battle makes it strictly worse than Airknight. It's sort of a Standard Goat mentality in that if you keep pressing with advantage generators and at worst trade even in advantage, you will eventually break through. Return is good, especially if I chose to run more cards that require LP payment such as Brain Control, but ultimately I like the fact that my Airknights/HaDes will remain on the field and generate a massive advantage swing. The fact that DF can be retrieved by DMoC pushes it over the edge, because I always mill a lot of cards and the DMoC option gives me one more way to get to it. It's like I get the benefits of running 3 DF without the risk of drawing multiples very frequently.
Is is possible to make a BEWD deck for goats format?
No. The Horus the Black Flame Dragons are the closest things to viable dragons you will find. Still a tier 4 deck though.
I have a question about how Necrovalley works in Goat format. Does it stop Sinister Serpent from returning to hand? And does it stop Sangan and Tomato from resolving since their effects include the word "graveyard"?
Necrovalley stops cards from targeting other cards in the graveyard, but for some reason I can't remember, Sinister Serpent works. Probably because it doesn't target itself. The effects of cards like Sangan/Tomato that activate when they are sent to the GY are unaffected.
So would you consider these the best decks of the format? What would a "tier list" look like?
A tier list is pretty suggestive, but here's mine:
2. Chaos + Zoo + Burn
3. Everything else
This is also suggestive but ill be much more specific.
2.Chaos control (both variants)
3.Chaos turbo (easily beaten if you side well)
5.Chaos recruiter(Its easy to beat unless if your a zoo player)
6. Zoo (It loses to chaos decks too easily and against goat the game is really 55/45 55 is goat)
7. DFT (its ok but it bricks too often and aggressive plays cuts there options and they rely on the opponent to make there otks work)
8. Warrior toolbox (The deck is 1 for 1 trades so its hard to get an edge on your opponent unless you get lucky)
9.Zombies (Ter kills it and chaos and bls too many weaknesses)
10.Monarchs (They die to tsuk do I have to say more)
11.Alt win, Otk, gravekeeper's, (Gimmicky at best you can sneak a couple of wins but its not consistant enough to be good)
I forgot monster gate reasoning put it in 8th and drop the other decks one place lower if there below it.
Goat (a bit overrated in my opinion; after playing with and against this deck for a long time I think that Goat is not Tier 0, but it is still a very consistent a deck with great potential for advantage that is also impossible to side against, although it can brick sometimes too)
Chaos (Turbo has the most potential for advantage, but is inconsistent and is destroyed by NoC; Recruiter is the most consistent, but has the least advantage potential; Control is somewhere in the middle and is on par with Goat Control IMO)
Zoo (a very consistent and scary deck that can beat any deck in this format on a regular basis, although it has some problems to recover from a disadvantage since it can only gain advantage through battle)
Burn (also very consistent; much better in RL, as matches are 2/3 and going into time happens very often; Tier 1 alongside Goat and Chaos in RL tournaments IMO, even with Decree around; On DB, time is not an issue but Decree still is, so I would put this a Tier below)
I think Empty Jar also belongs here somewhere, could maybe even be a Tier 1 deck, but I just don't have a lot of experience playing with and playing against that deck, but I definitely know how broken Cyber Jar and Morphing Jar really are; I think Empty Jar is at least on the same strenght level as Zoo and Burn, but I feel it is more inconsistent than them
1: Goat control, chaos control
1.5: Chaos turbo, chaos recruiter
2: Zoo, zombies, burn
2.5: Monarchs, GKs, etc.
Chaos turbo is close to goat and chaos control, and even better at generating card advantage. But their reliance on flip effects makes them prone to NOC and the warrior toolbox. Recruiter works well with creature swap but conflicts with scapegoat and is slower.
Zoo can fight goat control well. Without Exarion Universe, the deck is pretty weak. It is also reliant on the battle phase to gain advantage.
Monarchs are rather inconsistent. Many of their cards require other cards to work well. Their tribute summons are also prone to Tsukuyomi.
I think a side deck would be great for all of these decks. More games in a tournament are played after side decking that just with the main decks. Also, other people's goat lists would be really helpful. I personally play a Spirit Reaper over the second Tsuk, as well as Jinzo and D.D. Warrior Lady. I know everybody has their techs, but seeing a couple coherent builds would be cool.
Interesting techs but I feel like second tsuk is crucial then spirit reaper just because it combos into flip flop and Ter which are one of the few combos that lead into a plus 1 and I feel the more ways to go into a plus one the better the deck is.
Can Bazoo and Kycoo banish spells and traps or have they been errata'd to only hit monsters.
No they cannot. They were errata'd long before to correct this--about 2 years before goat format.
how do you guys deal with nobleman?
I mean, should I avoid setting monsters in some situation,
or always ignore about it?
It really depends on the situation tbh. For example something I was thinking about was if I had a tsuk and merchant and no other cards in hand going first. I realized that setting merchent is the better choice because the tsuk will clog and if they get over the tsuk you will go neg 1 Plus setting tsuk first will not extend your resources later on. But with cards like sangan and sinister setting them in right timing is a very powerful play and once you know info or get that good to predict it setting those two cards is crucial for winning a game.
can you please post a crane monster gate deck
Look @ Grindy Gate
I just want to say this is a very well-built open source website. Many thanks to those (or you) who put time and effort into putting this together.
gooooooooooood job guyzzzzz
Really good job dude! Keep it on! Is it possible again to click on the different types of decks?
Greetings from Germany!
To the maker of this site, I was so excited that you added a bunch of new decks, but unfortunately only one link works. im really excited to see them so them once your links work
Oh my god... I really want to read the entire updating! I'm very exited! But I can only read the first voice "standard goat", I'd love to read all the deck (specially the new decks) and the comments
I think Zoo Beatdown fromnyuginono should be added on here, its a very good agro deck that can pressure the opponent to death. I think its important to update this list more frequently, since people are still discovering new things with this format to this day. Zombies also needs a serious update, as thier are different variants now that aren't on here
Hey Jazz, keep up the great work. I´m really excited about Pioneer Format and looking forward to the card pool.